Showtime's The Chi Jasmine Davis: Actor, Model, Musician, Activist

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Critically and audience acclaimed The Chi on Showtime is now streaming its fourth season. The show takes place on Chicago's south side and in this tough neighborhood, real dangers threaten daily to squelch dreams, and the simplest decisions can have life or death consequences. The Chi is a timely coming-of-age drama series centered on a group of residents who become linked by coincidence but bonded by the need for connection and redemption. One of the standout stars is Jasmine Davis.

Not only an actor, but Jasmine is also a musician, model, and CEO of Saint J’s clothing and lifestyle brand. Jasmine's private life was put in the spotlight after she came out, during COVID, as trans as her character, Imani, was also revealed to be a trans woman. Coming out during the isolation of COVID and dealing with social media hate, Jasmine slipped into a mental breakdown from which she reemerged stronger than ever.

We sat down with Jasmine for a VERY candid chat about her coming out, growing up in the streets of Chicago, the reality of mental health, the bigotry that remains in minority groups, the reality of inclusivity in the LGBTQ community, the pressures of being a spokesperson for the black and LGBTQ communities, the roles being offered to trans actors, body positivity, her battle with dyslexia, her new music - offering a very real opinion on life, and loving yourself first...hosted by Alexander Rodriguez.

This is metro source minis, the official podcast to Metro source magazine and home of short form interviews with your favorite personalities from the lgbtq world and beyond. Quick, Fun and informative. It's metro source on the go, out in proud since one thousand nine hundred and ninety. Well, hello, hello, hello, this is metro source minis. I'm your host, Alexander Rodriguez, writer for Metro sors and avid podcaster. So, while under lockdown, I found myself watching a whole batch of new shows that I'd heard about but not yet watched. One of these shows affected me deeply, and it's not a show that I normally would have been watching. Critically and audience acclaimed the shy on showtime is now streaming it's fourth season. The show takes place on Chicago South side, and in this tough neighborhood, real dangerous threatened daily to swelt dreams and the simplest decisions can have life or death consequences. The shy is a timely coming of age drama series centered on a group of residents who become linked by coincidence but bonded by the need for connection and redemption, and one of the standout stars. My favorite girl is Miss Jasmine Davis. Not only an actor, she's also a musician, model and CEO of Saint Jade's clothing and lifestyle brand. Please welcome Jasmine Dave as hey girl boy. I love that in throw. I love that intro certainly, certainly love you. Being on the shy is actually full circle for you. You grew up in Chicago. What was the reality of growing up in this kind of environment? Um, it was kind of rough. You know, the reality of going back. I had some some reservations about it, and for good reasons, but it just it just hit home and I you know, you know how when you go back home and you haven't been there in a whow and you figured out what you have grown and what you have learned and you view things differently? Well, you you know, and this is what we see on the shy, is what decisions people make in terms of their life versus their environment. You know, the drug scene, the crime scene, some of the violence that even happens within a family. What do you tribute your journey and you kind of breaking away from that and making your own way of life unheated by this kind of atmosphere. I always say that I've always, I don't know how, had some type of world view on the world. Like, you know, I will always just be looking up in the sky or I was always fascinated with space or it's so I feel like, at a young age, being conscious of that, like it's so much bigger than this place. I feel like as a kid, the more and more than my imagination Rom when I became an adult, I wanted to Ben Drout, I wanted...

...to see new things. So I always hit that zest for I have to see the world. So that is what helped me like get out and break up out of that just this one dimensional part of this city. Well, and how amazing to be able to share your story, to show you know, you can be a successful actress and then you don't, can come back and tell your story within this kind of environment. You know, I'm sure it's inspiring to a number of youth and the struggles that they may be going through growing up. Yeah, and and that's one of the many things that I love that I was able to do, like to share my light and inspire so many people. I will always be forever grateful that I'm touching someone that I'm changing the world and some good manner. Now, how did you get into acting? Because you took a few twist and turns along the way, even a little stint as a beautician. Yes, yes, I went to Pivot Point Academy. Shout out. So Pivot Point Ivery far in uh yes, in Bloomingdale. It's like this. It's a very prestigious school. They have them all over the world. But yeah, I end up. I was just trying to figure out what I wanted to do, because I've always had this notion up. I wanted to be an actor, I wanted to be an art I wanted to do music, and I've always had this thing in the back of my mind how would I sustain my career, because I cannon knew how was because I grew up with musicians and I grew up with people in my family and I saw, you know, how the industry can be up and down. So I was always searching for something to do on a side where I'm like, okay, I have my own business that I can support my career. So that's what made me get it to you know, wanted to do hair and I went to massage therapy school, which helped me so much. And also, I was a stripper. I did not know that. You go girl. Yes, that helped me fun a lot of my career in Vegas. But but yeah, so I feel like all of those things, I was just trying to figure out how can I have these things help me support the one thing that I love to do, and that's the arts and many forms well. And you know, we're also hearing about a lot of actors, you know, actors that we've known on the scene for years and years, and now we're finding out that there's a large number of the acting family that has suffered from dyslexia. And I know that you have your own struggles with dyslexia and you kind of used Improv to kind of work through that, to work on your skill without being, you know, way down by a script. It's is that true? Yeah, it's so true. True. I love the fact that I can now proudly say I'm dyslexed. I was just laughing. It's the one the other day and I was like hey, siries spelled this and they just thought I laughed and it was like you love see her. I say, Oh, she's the best thing. Event, if I dis like the girl like me,...

...like the gift that I feel like I have been dyslexed. And when I looked at all my expanders, the people that I can look up to see who were so successful, is, you know, being dysplexed from Fami high. Then when I found out that Tom Holland is dyslected spider man, who welcome to the group. Well, you don't have to be something wrong with him, because he can't just have the talent and the cute looks and the booty at you know, right, right, I was gonna say, right, he can't be back to he's got to be something wrong with us. When people ask me that, like Oh my God, you just so perfect, I can't say you're say, honey, I am dyslexing adds. There is nothing perfect about this girl. But you know, and we're learning that it's not. You know, and I joked about it, like there has to be something wrong, but it's not that there's this, you know, this wrong thing about somebody. It opens up the window to look at literature and music and even an acting role from a whole different approach rather than just the black and white words on it page. So it's very exciting that people are now talking about working with dyslexia in acting and being able to kind of reinterpret a script and a character, you know, and it's great that we're that we're talking about it now. What's the audition process for the shy like Um it? I'll tell be honest. It was brief. I didn't honestly know what I was getting myself into, because I'm an areas and one of those people who spontaneous at moments. You know, I was I don't know why I was like called to, because many people ask me like why did you decide to do it, like you didn't really have to come out. I'm I guess I did, you know, like potentially. You know, I'm like why was I call to do it? So I just end up like finally, you know, after getting emails for my agentes like he please just read it, I end up reading the script and I love that. I love the woman on there, I love the money. We had a lot of similarities, you know, and I, you know, stint it in. It was a self tape at first that Margie Hayberd people helped me with, and then after that from the self tape, it went too okay. You have this, you know, sessions with you know, common Cuba. You gotta go in some I like his like a produced a session. I'm like, what's going on? And then, you know, you get other calls and you have to do this and next thing. All this happened within a week. The next thing I know, next week, like like what, eight, nine days, I'm getting the call from Stylus and Oh, we're fitting you, and I'm getting another call for my agency and there they need a bio. I'm like, what's happening? Can someone explain to me what's what did I get it it? What is? They're like yes, wow, and but you know, and talking about your personal life and the character of Emani, most actors play a role in the interviews are centered around the character in the show, but your private life, through playing Emani, became the headline, which I can imagine must have been a double edged sword. Yes, you know, you got this exposure for playing a trans...

...character on TV, but through that, your home coming out was kind of just put out there for everyone, whether you wanted it to or not. That must have been a very difficult decision to make, to to come out during this process. It was alect a like it was the low. Well, I asked, I think I answered one of the questions in the pre enderby we did like what was it like coming out in the pandemic? And it was a nightmare. I didn't tell anyone. Now I can talk about it because my mental health is stable. I'm good. I was bullied for six months. You know, straight I would I will mark on my calendar each week what nasty thing someone would say about me, which was wasn't healthy. I would be told go kill yourself. It was. It was a nightmare for six months straight. Into the fans fell in love with me and they start fighting back for me. So I give all my praises to the fans. I call them the royal family, my supporters. But if it was in for them, I don't because I feel like I had no one else. I did not know what I was getting myself into it. I did not expect coming out in a pandemic and my personal life, like you don't know what this really is until you get into you cannot prepare for this. What I enjoyed about the character of emani is, you know, your first season with the show we saw family life. You know, emani creating, you know, being being kind of the the housewife, so to speak, and that's how it was presented. It wasn't presented with this like pomp and circumstance, like now we're having this Trans Story and you know, it was just it was woven into the fabric of the entire show and presented in such a low key way, and I love that so much. I tend to think that sometimes our community gets very bombastic with our message and then it it's not such a great opportunity to build bridges with people that we need to build bridges, such as the fans of the show love Emani so much and, like you said, they formed this community and it's probably people that may or mayhem not have been exposed to somebody trans in their life or something that they've never seen presented in such a low key, normal part of life, and that's what I loved about the first season. To be honest, the first season with my favor plant emany. I recently tell someone that say is like we love Blah, Bah Blah. What was your favorite season? The first season was so great for me because everything you say and hit head on being low key, because I had so many people who, like you said, was not exposed to a girl like me, and they were like wow, we see you as a human. And when I was in Chicago, I would have these thugs hop out the car, excuse my language. They would be like, Oh my God, you're such a bad bitch and blah,...

...blah, blah. These guys that normally that I will think we'll try to attack me, will be coming up to me praising me for this world, telling me like I really love your character. Thank you for helping me not be transphobic, thank you for helping me overcome this, thank you for helping me be you as a human, religious people. And that was a shocker to me, having my community tell me that versus any other community, because I'm like wow, okay, what's happening universe? Yeah, well, have to tell you, as a gay man, watching the show the first few episodes was certainly jarring and eye opening for me. You know, I didn't and this is my Nativity, it's my being in my own kind of lgbtq bubble, and I think what we saw during this last year with the protesting, with the BLM and Blm Movement, was how much more our community still has to learn about the black community and the struggle of the black community and what I saw from the show and then I just I couldn't stop watching episode after episode, because these relationships with family and friends are the same relationships and struggles that I've had to go through, but I haven't had to deal with the environments, such as the crime, such as the violence, such as the blatant racism and bigotry that happens on the political level, and also access to to to normal public services like medical and mental health resources. You know, it's this constant struggle that, looking out from the outside, was very eye opening, and so I want to know, from your point of view, how can the Lgbtq community best support movements like Blm and other minority groups? What can we do? And I'm so grateful you ask me that. I think that we should start really coming together and stop, you know, separating ourselves. Like even if you ever been to wee hell, if you go to Wei how certain clubs, like my I have a guy, have a gay cousin. He's a male gay cousin and I'm not. You know, I don't really go to wee house, not my scene, but they love going are and they will tell me. I'm we help. Yeah, they, you know, they had dragged me there sometimes with the nail. Tell me, like certain clubs don't play certain music because they don't want to attract certain crowd I'm like, what do you need certain crowds? And they explain the difference to me, that racism exists in the LGBT community. And I was ignorant to that and because I didn't know, because, like I said, I didn't really have a lot of strong lgbt friends around me, and so I was so like blown away, like what can we do? So my thing, I think we can do is start being more inclusive and stop planning to the narrative of someone think someone's better because someone's skin color or where they came from, because we all are just born the way we born. We can't help what family we born until. We can't help with skin color, we can't help the situations that we were boring into. Some of us just got lucky, you know, and some of US get hit...

...with we deal with societal issues of how societal looks at certain people. But I feel like for us, as the LGBT que community, we should put we supposed to arrive above what you know, what the status quo say, how you should view people who were born this way or who came from this environment, because we should all know what it's like to be treated differently, and I feel like if we think, if we think like that, like okay, we know what it's like to be treated differently. So how dare me, as Lgbt Community who now im black, do this person differently? I don't know what they had to do with in your life, you know. And you're talking about the West Hollywood environment. It was it was news to me as well until somebody brought it up. I was hanging out with with a friend and he's a look around you right now, and I was in one of the main clubs and I looked around and I had never put tuned to together. It's like wow, it's like a winter wonderland because there's a lot of white happening. But it wasn't just the crowd, because you know, you can't blame a crowd for who's hanging out and WHO's not. But they said, look at the go go dancers, look at the bartenders, look at the staff, and it was very eye opening and certain clubs have become known for that, and so the movement has been is to start putting pressure on these clubs, on these gay organizations, for more representation and demand that it happens. Yeah, and it's also, you know, part of our culture is very, the lgbtq cultures, very into social media, such as putting our best foot forward, taking a hundred selfies and posting one. Well, posting something on social no, but it's true. I mean we all do it, but supporting other minority groups or even supporting Blm, it's not just about posting on social media and then you go about your day. Yep, I think a lot of people, and to anybody post on social media, I mean, and that's just true, but it's like, where's the energy and where's the action behind it? And that's what I want to call on the community is, you know, if you're going to post something on social media or make a statement, of bold statement, put some time and action behind it. Find out what organizations you can get involved in, or take time and start putting pressure on some of these non diverse environments that we all support with our money. Yeah, that's true, but that takes people to think, to step out of their comfort zone and a lot of people are not willing to do that. Like you said, they're willing to post on social media because it's comfortable, on twitter whatever, like yeah, I support Blah, Blah Blah. But are you stepping out of your comfort zone in life to really speak up, to really step up, to really put yourself in no shoes and really have those people who are the first in line to help people? I feel like people and Brown are the first in line to both that's and help people. Now just what, whether you...

...want it to or not, you have become a spokesperson for the LGBT Q humunity which again talking about this double that sword. Having this platform is amazing. To Inspire the youth growing up is amazing. I think we're our youth is growing up in a totally didn't different environment than than what I have. Yeah, so grateful, but there's also this pressure and it's like, you know, I'm an actor and like I should just be able to focus on my acting, and now it's like putting your best put forward, being politically correct and having to be a spokesperson. How do you deal with that kind of pressure? You first have to take a step back and take your power back and not be a puppet for people. I said that recently that we were the first influencers before influencers or non celebrities were the first influences before we even had a word for it. And a lot of things are so politicized and we are weird. You know, we're stepping on a fine line here. And and what I've learned and what I did and I told myself, you're no one's puppet. You're doing this out the kindness of your heart. So when you get called to do something, that's when you do it, not when someone tell you you have to do this. You're grown woman, you do whatever you want to. Your first and only responsibility in life is to yourself. It's just like Leon airplane. If you lose oxygen, you if you cannot, if you cannot help yourself and you cannot breathe yourself, you cannot help no one else. So I tell anyone that like make sure that you taken care of your mental health and making sure you taking yourself and set those boundaries and making sure like, yes, I do know that I have a responsibility and now I accept those responsibility more because now I have I feel like I step more into my power if I said in those boundaries. At first I was so on the edge, you know, like I think you probably even notice. I was so on the edge of, Oh my God, I feel like I'm being forced to do this. But now that I feel like I took my power back and now I feel like I want to do this, but I want to do it in my way and I'm going to do it in my way and people are going to who see that it's more authentic, because people know when it's more authentic and when it's more of are you doing it because you're riding this way? You know, but I'm a genuine person. I can't do that. And that's what I love about not only your acting style, which is so sincere, but also you've been a spokesperson for community. You are very real about it. You're not afraid to throw punches in a very positive way. You know you're not. There's not this negative energy, but everything that you say is so important for outsiders to realize the struggle of what some of our leaders in the community have to go through on a daily basis and, like you said, mental how health. It's so scared to talk about and it's so scary to present, not your strongest self. Again, with this age of social media, smoking mirrors our best picture forward and sometimes mental health, it's not showing us at...

...our best, because we are struggling as a community and through covid. You know, one of the biggest groups to struggle through covid even with suicide, is the Trans Community. I'll totally and I still think well, and I still think that there's a struggle between gay and trance supporting each other, you know, and there's still this misunderstanding even in our own community, and it's just so frustrating. It's very sad because instead of you said that it's so true. Like I check someone re sandly. I'm, you know, not going to say their name, if so, one of our community, and they said something about a transvestie. I said, well, transgenders are not a transvestie. I said, let me adjucate people what that is. A transvestite is someone who gets off and put it on with ISS closed, a drag queeness. Someone is a male, a male who's born male, who has no interest of becoming trans, who dresses up for work or for shows or whatever. And then you have a transgender, someone who identifies themselves as an opposite sex, and do you have a transsexual, which is me, someone who not only identifies as the sex that they want to be, but also has an operation to be that woman or that man that they want to be? And a lot of gay people do not understand that. Lesbians or Gay do not understand that and they, I feel like, they don't take the time to want to understand that. Some of them feel like all trendies it when I hear that word training, like these trainees are crazy, but I'm like, well, someone called you and lesbian or fact like that's offensive to you, but you you let that word come out of your mouth like so effortlessly. But you don't, you don't think it's no, no, no problem with that, and I feel like you gotta start. It goes back to what I was saying. You have to start looking at everyone like yourself, like how would I want to be treated, because that's how I look at people and unfortunately a lot of people don't. I like to treat people how I want to be treated. It and it is having these conversations, like the fact that a gay man is having this conversation with you and you're able to educate you know and set things right. And this is what we need to do, is have these open forms of communication, without fear of appearing ignorant, without getting angry at the other side, but to really sit and understand and not be so afraid to reach out our hand. And I think the fact that anyone who doesn't know anything I and I welcome that all the time. I feel like ignorant of not wanting to know is what bothers me. But if you don't know something, you really don't know something. To me that gives me an opportunity of a person who may know something more it's to explain to you. So I always welcome that for anyone. I always say that to anyone. Don't ever feel a shame, don't ever feel like you can't ask me anything that you don't know. I welcome it because I feel like if you don't know and I have the answer or I...

...can help lead you down this direction, I it braves me great joy that I just help you enlightened in some type of way. And part of the exciting part of you telling your story and sharing your experience is during covid you're releasing new music. Yeah, yeah, and I could tell you so the album that you're putting together is called never give up, but the and it's now streaming everywhere, by the way, but the first single you put out was bliss. Yes, I was in shock because I knew you were a musician and I thought it was gonna be, you know, like this kind of, you know, meaningful ballad, and it's very hatingful. But girl, it is Sassy as fuck. Yes, yes, I pressed play. What it was like? God, it was Secy, it was bad, bitch. It was like, yes, I love that, for not only knowing you, but also you know the character of Imani, and now this comes out, as you know, your musician side, and I just love that you weren't so careful and pretty with it. You were like, okay, let's just let's just do this. Yeah, I'm done with being careful, I'm done with being I'm done with this lying here it and I want the world to see my unapologetically self, hook, being me, being a human, and I feel like we need to stop pretending like we're not human. There's so many different sides about my mom was so shots. He's like, wait a minute, you wrote that. I said, mom Y, I wrote that and I write out everything on my ep I wrote. She's like wow, she couldn't believe I actually raps like that. It's great and it's on my pilistic and I have to tell you, every time I need a little pick me up or I need little self confidence, let's put on list and I am ready to go, ready to go, honey. Yes, I fell weep and I so appreciate that. I'm so grateful for my music career because this really helped me again that it really helps me as an artist even pull more out of me, to be more vulnerable to my community and also to encourage others like me, other girls like me, other people to Lgbtque community like me. This is go for go big and go or go home. Do it. And I have a show coming up on the sixteenth. I can't wait. I'm going to be performing with one of the legend Rappers, trainer. I'm going to be opening for her. WE'RE IN ATLANTA. It's going to be yeah, it's gonna be fire. It's gonna be fire. And you know, I have a new album already working on this coming out in the spring, and it has a lot of country in it, which I'm like, I'm you know, been wanted to do for a while. Like I'm it's going to be some rap on it, but I have a lot of country songs in the album that's coming out. I...

...am so excited and I want everybody to start streaming. Never give up, which is your EP, but especially first listen, like listen to bliss and like. Have you seen scripts, the kind of scripts you're getting to audition? Have you seen kind of a change in that with a success of the shine? What I've what I've seen recently? Far as a trans no, I was kind of disappointed. I turned down a few, but I when I found out of the people who got them, I was I was, you know, congratulating. I'm not really impressed with some of the things, some of the things I saw on TV that I didn't get the audition for. I'm like, Oh, I totally would have played that. But but in terms of the scripts, I love the fact that the industry is starting to really recognize that I was playing regular rows before I came in this industry as friends and because most of my auditions lately has just been regular rows and I've only had like maybe two auditions. That was like a trans and one of them. I was highly disappointed and I don't I don't care to play a prostitute. I'm going to say that. You know, I feel like we can be more advanced at these days, but I feel high hoped for me, the fact that big, big like studios and stuff, has been sending me things and the people that got the role over me, the women that got the role over me. I was just so grateful that I was actually able to audition put the role that she went up for as well. So I'm grateful that people starting to realize, like, well, Jasmine, if you you I'm so many things, like I played a mom you know, before, I d a commercial, I I was in a geasy video. I've done so many things before before people know me. So I'm grateful bad of some of the studios and some of the people are really seeing me as so many different ways, because that's what I want to do for my lgbt community, especially my woman of Trans and my women who are lesbian, you know, so they can see two like we don't have to just play this role, we don't have to just be this, because if you present yourself and you look like the road, you shouldn't be just you know, labeled to have to play this. So I'm grateful for that and I think Hollywood is getting it, because I have a number of transactor friends and they're saying the same thing, is they're being called in for roles that are not dependent on Trans or not being trans, and I think Hollywood is listening and they're knowing that, you know, and audiences are better educated now, so it doesn't have to lead, you know, Trans Gay film, Whatever. It's just this is a film and these are the stories that are part of this film. Yeah, and I'm grateful with that because four years I was see gay, predominantly gay white men, Yep, play straight rows that people...

...know that they're gay, and I'm like, well, why can't Hollywood you their imagination with some of us? who was planned just rows before they found out there we were transit would like. But I'm grateful to Hollywood is starting to get in and I'm just super excited for the future of what is to be. Well, I'm excited. I'm excited to see to see whatever new you come up with, because you have been a powerhouse in the industry and so many different ways and it's just it's a privilege to get to know you and it's an honor to be able to chat with you about real issues affecting our community. I agree and I'm so excited about what's the common I just want to keep to you to inspire the youth, especially the lgbt you and all that. You know, I always say the youth in general first, and especially the LGBT you, because I have so many people like from different walks of life who dm me and tell me how inspired they are. So I I'm all about inspiring youth. I want them to do big things. So anything I can do in this world, I just hope I leave that mark when, hopefully when I'm old and gray, when I'm like a hundred years old, that I could that I could see here and say I left this world better than when I came. And we do need to inspire youth and we need to speak to our youth because they're the ones that need to get out there and vote for us in the future, because we see how important it is to be politically involved and educated. Otherwise our community suffers. We suffered the most out of everything, out up everything, and just just for them to be themselves, they don't have to hide like a most of us. They can just be a hundred percent themselves. They are so blessed to live in a time that back in a day, people like me and you will be hunged and killed for just being ourselves and just let just making sure that they realize the time that they live in is even me and you. The time that we live in is all our ancestors, back, our ancestors and our LGBT ancestors who were murdered and killed in jail for us just being who we are. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. Jasmine, I love chatting with you. Give your cousin my number. I totally will. Please tell everybody where you want them to find you and follow you, so I'll also. I'm before I leave, I'm starting to podcast with that cousin called, Oh my God, with Jasmine and g yes, I'm started a podcast and I can't wait to have you on it's yes, to start the first of the year. We're going to have many topics and talk about music as well, but you can find me. That's going to be on spotify. You can also find my website. Is going to be in my link in my bio, in my instagram under the Jasmine Davis. That's thhe...

Jasmine, and you also can find me on twitter as the Jasmine Davis, Youtube and facebook. Everything is the Jasmine Dave is. I don't know how I got lucky. You know that no one else took those names, but you can find me on Instagram, twitter, facebook, Youtube at the Jasmine Davis, and still you can hear me on my podcast. Oh, I'm very excited because you have a lot to say and inspire. I'm I'm gonna presubscribe and at the beginning of the year I will be I'll be one of your podcast fans. I love that. I'm really freaking love you and your energy. You have no idea. Same girl, same thank you. Thank you so much, and this has been my chat with Jasmine Davis. You can read my indepth article with her in the latest issue of Metro source, available on news stands around the nation or at Metro sourcecom. And that's our episode. I'm your host and writer from Metro source, Alexander Rodriguez. You can follow me on Instagram at Alexander is on air on. Until next time, stay true and do you boot. That has been another metro source mini like share, subscribe on your favorite podcast player and check out the latest issue of Metro Sports magazine on newsstands or online at Metro sourcecom. Follow us on Facebook, instagram and natural source and on twitter at Metro course man. Until next time, HE FAS.

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