Everybody's Talking About Jamie Writer Tom MacRae

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Joining the ranks of Ryan Murphy and Greg Berlanti in elevating LGBTQ characters and voices,  writer Tom MacRae made his US debut with EVERYBODY’S TALKING ABOUT JAMIE.

MacRae is entirely self-taught in screenwriting, playwrighting, and scripting for television. MacRae was nominated for a BAFTA early in his career for writing the TV movie Off Limits: School's Out. From there, he’s worked consistently, notably as a writer on the cult hit TV series “Doctor Who,” and he then created and wrote “Threesome,” Comedy Central UK’s first original scripted comedy since the channel was renamed in 2009, which got him noticed in the United States.The show itself started as a collaboration between Tom McRae (who also wrote the screenplay) and musician Dan Gillespie Sells, responsible for the songs and collaborating on the film’s score with Oscar winner Anne Dudley (The Full Monty).

On this episode of Metrosource Minis, we chat with Tom MacRae from across the pond about growing up as a gay kid in a small town, how he got into the writing biz, his creative process, getting Jamie to the stage, meeting the real-life Jamie and his mom, bringing the show to the US, his favorite scene from the film, making his own cameo in the movie, and handling his new found US fame, and what's ahead...with host Alexander Rodriguez.

This is metro source minis, the official podcast to Metro source magazine and home of short form interviews with your favorite personalities from the lgbtq world and beyond. Quick, Fun and informative. It's metro source on the go, out in proud since one thousand nine hundred and ninety. Well, hello, hello, hello. This is metro source minis. I'm your host, Alexander Rodriguez, writer for Metro source and avid podcaster. So we know that I hardly like anything that's popular. Forest Gump, no Sunday brunch. Now I'm going to sleep in. Sweet potato fries. Definitely no real housewives NACK. But something that has hit the globe in such a loud way that is perfectly charming, sweet and Sassy, is a movie that I am absolutely in love with. Based on the stage musical, everybody's talking about Jamie joining the ranks of Ryan Murphy and Great Brulante and elevating lgbtq characters and voices. Writer Tom McRae made his US debut with this film, and the show itself started as a collaboration between Tom, who also wrote the screenplay, and musician Dan Gillespie sells, who wrote the songs. Now Tom is entirely self taught in screenwriting, playwriting and scripting for television. He was nominated for a bath to early in his career for writing the TV movie off limits schools out, and from there he's worked consistently, notably as a writer on the cult hit TV series Dr who, and then he created and wrote three some comedy central, UK's first original scripted comedy since the channel was renamed, which got him noticed in the US. They thank you Jesus. Please welcome Tom mccrae. Hey, thank you so much for having me. How are you? I'm really good. I feel very fired up by that fantastic enthusiastic introduction. Now I have to say this is a metro source first that we're chatting with somebody from across the pond. Do I have to be more do I need to be more formal? Do I need a drink? Tea? Like what's happening? You couldn't curtsy...

...at the end. I think that's appropriate, but we'll keep it light till that. So I have to know art was a part of your household growing up. When you learn the most from your parents about the creative process? Well, my mom was an art teacher at a high school and she's a really long hours. She was she was very she was a kind of a career woman. She was the first woman to be the head of a department at the school. She'd worked out and so she was she was very driven, but she always made chil she had lots of time for me and my dad as well, and we do lots of creative projects that didn't really cost much because they didn't have much money when I was growing up. So we'd make a lot of stuff and I'm in my dad make me a puppet theater out of all these cut out bits of card, my Moma County Games to play. We just kind of ordinary things around the house. So it's lots of kind of encouraging me to use my imagination and I'd get, you know, toys and stuff at Christmas. It wasn't like I was Dickensiean Orten, but a lot of the most fun was from just taking ordinary stuff and making it extraordinary through imagination. If you play and when we created the stage show for Jamie, you know, we had a very limited budget. So being able to know how to make something good before you have all the money, and even when you do have all the money, there's never enough. You know, if you can fall back on your imagination, you can always make something special, and so I think I definitely learned that from them. Now, what kind of kid were you growing up? Were you kind of an introvert or were you the one target and class all the time? I didn't. I wasn't really either. I just was kind of lost. I was definitely in the wrong place. I grew up in a little village, which is it's like a small town, but but smaller, smaller than that. You're thinking, it's it and and and I love it now, but it was not like a nurturing place for a quick kid who wanted to make movies and theater and, you know, write songs and all the stuff that I got to do. So I was yeah, I was the odd one out and it I'd never worked out how to fit in, and actually now I...

...fit in there very well. I think I've worked out how to be able to have different sides to my life. But as a kid I just wanted to escape. That was all I was interested and I didn't care about school or anything. I was in particular academic and I just was looking to run away, which, to be fair, I've never stopped doing. I'm always running somewhat it. I love that and I see that that that journey has done well for you. Do you mind sharing your coming out story with us? Yeah, it was. It wasn't great. I was seventeen and it sort of came out like me wanting it too. So I had the kind of fall out of having never even kissed a boy. Like where I grew up, I didn't think there were any gay kids. In hindsight, and with Facebook, I've discovered that actually there were a few that I didn't know about, but even that not many. So it was all it was so hypothetical and suddenly I was having to kind of explain who I was and I didn't know I hadn't. I hadn't had kissed to boil or met another gay kid my age or done anything and something. I had to be kind of explaining it to people and as I don't know, I don't know it it was. It was really kind of horrible, but it wasn't horrible for very long. Actually, my mom and dad it was a bit of a readjustment, but they were pretty good and then they were absolutely great. So now it I can sort of talk about it without any residual pain, but it was not fun at the time. Now, what first inspired you to put that pen to paper for the first time, so to speak? I always wanted to make movies and tell stories and and do what I'm doing now, and so you kind of the start. I thought, well, that's a director, but I didn't know how to raise all the money and, you know, put together a crew and he I didn't know how to do that then. So I thought, well, I just write something. That kind of became was like the cheapest way to start to create stories. And then I discovered that actually really enjoyed doing it and and then quite a while later I thought I'll actually I think I'm quite good at this, and for a long time I didn't think I was very good. I just enjoyed it and I thought it was a way into the industry. And then, and then,...

...particularly when I started doing theater, which was something I'd never really thought I was going to do, which is a much more pure form of writing, and I'd sit down and I'm in the middle of writing the musical, a stage music clip moe, literally I just put it down to come and talk to you and I've and it is quite hard and it's tricky to figure out, but I sit there type and away and I really do enjoy it. So what was kind of some effort was in necessities, end up becoming a great pleasure. Can you give us any clue as to what the new music was about, or is that under wraps? It's about some people who sing some songs. It's now I can't anything. I wish I could. I'm as soon as I can, I'll be I'll be screaming from rooftops, but it's some secret among I'm very excited. I'm you have no formal training as a writer. What do you think? What do you think it was about your writing that affected the scene and you sold your scripts and you've become part of the industry? Yeah, I think not knowing what you're doing is quite useful, and maybe look for a doctor. Well, yes, that's too maybe I'm talking about creative industry specifically, where you know if you can invent it with enough kind of imagination, you can make it become true. But you, I think, when you really do think you know what you're doing is probably when you're going to start producing kind of stale crap. So it's good to keep chest testing yourself from kind of throwing yourself in at the deep end. And that's all I've ever done. And if I'd done a writing course, I'd left with that kind of piece of paper at your look, I'm a writer. Well, that would be a very false confidence, because you're not a writer till you're writing and you're not a good writer till you're writing good stuff. So to never go in thinking that I deserve to be there, but I had to earn my place with every job just kind of kept me keen and hungry. But actually, a couple of years ago now, me and Dan and Johnny who created Jamie, we were made doctors of the arts by Sheffield how university, which is where did Jamie stage show opened, the where it's set so so many we had this very formal day where we all got this kind of education we've never had and this fantastic qualification. So now I am actually qualified, like I'm a literally a doctor.

It's come quite late in my career now. When you were young, you love like transformers and Star Wars. When the doctor who GIG came around, I mean that's huge to be part of that kind of part of science fiction history, television history. How did you get the doctor WHO GIG? Well, I knew Russell t Davis, who brought the show back, because Russell had done a book signing in London when he was doing well, just done queer as folk, which was the show that made me really want to become a TV writer. Before then I just wanted to do films, which to me a long time to get a movie made. But watching crew as folk I thought well, TV's just brilliant in its own way, and so I who did a book signing. I just kind of turned up and I was about nineteen and I said I want to be a writer. Will you help and somehow I talked him into it and and he mentored me and you know, and still to this day, I send him to and say what you think? And when he brought Dr who back, he asked me to go on to it. So I'd remember at that point I wasn't he hadn't pick me up out of the streets. I've been writing shows for the BBC. I was you know, I had a people knew me a bit, but it was a huge step up. And not only is it, as you say, cal SCI FI royalty. If you live in the UK it is ingrained in popular culture, as he showed. Nearly sixty years old. Everyone has grown up with it. It's just a part of the culture here and to be part of that, to do something that you know has such a kind of long lasting impact, was really special and it's the first time I got to do something like that. You know, Queer as talk is as getting a reboot. Here in the states we can take on reboots if they're good. I mean doctor who wasn't a reboot. It was. It literally picked up what it left right. I think, yeah, there's no reason why they can't be good. It's it. Sometimes it's better to start again than to try to continue. But as long as there's a good reason for doing that, and by me tried to. It happens with crew as folks. It was only ever, I think, eight episode two or maybe ten, and it ran for a long time in the state. So one off in a whole different direction. So we see what they do. Is that...

...and a great time to do it. You have stated in other interviews that you don't normally put yourself in your writing, except for that that one part of everybody's talking about Jamie. Why is that? Well, the first thing I ever wrote, because I didn't know what I was doing, I wrote about the awful summer jobs I have when I was a student, and the main character with me and all the characters in it were people that I liked and disliked, who I've met, and all the stories true stories that I kind of you know, have to kind of push them into shape, but they were certain. It was kind of autobiographical, and I did that because I didn't know how to write. So I thought, well, I've got to learn everything from scratch, so at least let's have a few safety nets, and one of them was to base all the characters on real people and have the main guy be me, because I knew how to find their voices and all the stories were sort of true. But once I've done that and I kind of figured out at least how to structure an episode of TV, I thought, well, I don't know what it is. I think I just I don't like going down a kind of naval gazing world of writers writing about writing and TV shows about TV shows. Not I mean they can be brilliant. There's you know, there's always exceptions to the rule. But I just want to write about other people and I don't put myself in stuff very often. Maybe one day I will and that will be a big kind of project. Try to find what it is about me that I find interesting. But normal I just find other people much more interesting. What's the biggest what are the biggest differences between writing for English projects and then writing for you as projects? Well, I've been I've been looking to work in both countries and and I do have a foot in in La and in London, so I kind of speak American English. So I know. I remember I just have a house in West Hollywood and getting the you but to drop me off once they would demolishing the house next door to make him up mansion and I said, can you just drop me by the skip, and he drove past the skip. And so the next time I said, could you drop me by the skip? And they drove past and I thought, I don't think they call them skips, so I googled it and it's a dumpster. So you should things like that. Very simple. What's the American word for? And I kind of now if I'm writing something. So I'm writing a show.

The moment set in the states and I'll type something I just get a little niggled thinking I don't think that's the right word. I don't know why I just it. I don't think that's the right word, and then I'll check with American friends. How would you say if it's like an idiom or just just literally word like skip and dumpster? So I kind of yeah, I because I'll be able to live in both worlds, in both cultures. I think I've got a good sense of it and how the audience is them pretty much the same, but there's a few differences and things brip. Brits like shows about losers and Americans like shows about winners, which is kind of that's interesting, but that's very interesting. Now the journey to the musical version of everybody's talking about Jamie from jam will the show. That's a show. Until it south. There was a few delays where they're not. Well, we were pretty fast. It's just the the way where it was. We did to workshops and then we opened and because for a the to like you know, when we opened at Sheffield, known you the show would go on to be the success it has. No really would have dreamed it so they were, you know, that they had a limited pot of funds to give us to do our workshops, which for them was a lot of money. And having done the workshop that was very successful, we wanted to get straight over the next one and then we kind of had to wait a year for the money to be sorted out and then we do. We'll already waited a year to get first one. So we were always I think we could have done the whole thing in a few months, but we ended up taking a back three years because of bit of theater politics. But actually three years is really fast for a musical. We could done it quicker. The next one we will do quicker, but we were we were pretty on it, so it didn't feel to slow down actually. But yeah, we probably could have turned it around faster, but then it opened at a time when people would just ready for it, so maybe it was the best thing. Now, just like when you first started writing, you had no previous experience writing a musical. Was your creative process different for writing the musical, or did you just sit and do it, or did you study other musicals? What was your kind of process? Well, so I wrote the songs with Dan, I...

...did the lyrics and down did the music and normally with his band, of feeling down with you both, and normally I would do neither. So there's a kind of point of US figuring out how that works. But we went to watch a lot of shows to research what other shows we're doing and actually at one of those we bumped into someone who ended up introducing us to Jonathan Buttell, who'd seen the Jamie document entry, which inspired the stage show. So that, how is how that's how that kind of all came together. But yeah, we we just paid attention and I read Stephen Somheme wrote two really good books about his kind of experiencing musicals called finishing a hat and look, I made a hat and I've read both of thoats. And Dan said to me, but you've never had any training in anything you do, don't break your lucky streak, and he was kind of worried, because I was actually trying to learn stuff, that it would mess it all up. But we didn't learn too much. I think that's that's why it works, is we just did it and it just came together and now, looking back, I could probably kind of breakdown why it worked. At the time we were just like, if we're having fun and we like it, then it's probably okay. and Luckily enough other people have the same kind of sensibilities that we do. That we found this huge audience which we didn't really know was out there. Now, what did you learn most about yourself from writing, Jamie? Uh, I don't know. That's a good question because I don't really put myself in things. So that you just kind of alluded to, which is that the speech at the end, which is I think it's pretty much exactly the same in movies it is in the stage show, where pretty takes down dean the bully. Everything she says in that speech is me at that age, what I wish I could have said to the deans in my life, if I think two of them were actually called Dean, which is why I use the name and and so that was a little bit of me in there, but I guess I suppose. Well, something I really did them was shooting the film, was getting to hang around with all these amazing sort of sixteen, seventeen, eighteen year olds who played our year eleven and some were kind of early twenties and some were one was actually late twenties, but in the most part they were kind of school age kids themselves or they just...

...left school, and talking to them and seeing how the mostly straight but how they kind of responded to the content of Jamie and the queer issue and the drag and the gender bending and all that and just how completely relaxed and open minded they were about it all. And these weren't posh kids, these weren't stage school kids, they were kids from the area. We found by doing an open casting call and realizing, since I was at school, just how much it's all moved on. And then I got to go back to my old school to do like a speech day and and I hated being there the first time around and going back the second time around with all different staff and all different kids, seeing that how much they really wanted to have an inclusive community at the school. They had a group for for Trans Kids at the school and active LGBT club and the teachers will really proactively kind of pushing that kind of conversation to be happening. And I thought, well, the world has all changed. I mean it's not perfect and this is only one small part of the world, but in the UK it really has moved on a lot and I'm really happy that Jamie gets to be kind of part of that. That's exactly right. I have a lot of hope for the future because the youth, I have to also they don't have the same restrictions on themselves, on their identities. You know, the whole world's really their oyster. In divid he is a natural part of their youth and that's very exciting. Yeah, yeah, I think that's true. How did you meet down? We were on a rally. We're being political, and I was with a friend of mine at's called Russell, toby and Russell, and you Dan a bit, and so we ended up with him and his mom, Cath. that a dance, by ways, and me and Dan just really hit it off and so we started hanging out and I was a really big fan of Dan's band. Went was, I still am, and he had been watching my Sitcom which was on TV at the time, threesome. Yeah, and so we end up kind of hanging out. We'd go and get drunk and I was quite exciting because I've never had a friend whom was a pop star before, and we'd go, we should ride a musical, we should ride a musical. Yeah, we're riding musical and then one day Dan rang me whilst we're both sober and said let's actually do it. So so we've been...

...friends for a little bit before it happened. So it's but our friendship has always been involved in some way with either talking about our writing a musical. What are some of the musicals that have shaped your life? Probably the most influential musical and probably kind of film and maybe anything really, is beauty and the beast, the Disney cartoon from the S. Yeah, pause when I watched it was just the kind of period in my life where I was becoming like an angry, upset teen and I didn't feel that the kind of angry music, like kind of golf or Emo or any of that stuff, really was helping because I just was so sort of furious and unhappy all the time and to listen to music that was just that made me feel worse. And then I watched beauty in the beast and there was Belle walking out singing, just a little town, just a quiet village, every day like the one before, just like where I grew up and as I've got she's me and and that soundtrack kind of became the music that I listened to you over and over and over again, because it made me think there's a better world around the corner and actually don't just, you know, surrender to all the misery and sit and slasher wrists. Just keep on going. You will find your shining castle somewhere. So that was became really important to me and still is. It's something that's so special and it's so good. But aside from that, what it means to be personally so the influence that's had on me I cannot understate. But in terms of just musicals, for the sake of being great, probably I love Greece. I love the accessibility of that and how much fun it is. I love that we ship horrors. I love the madness of rocky horror, because it shouldn't work but it's so does. I love the classics like Carousel and sound of music, and I saw sweeney todd in the west end in London years ago and it's kind of the first show I'd seen as an adult that I'd never that I didn't know anything about at all and I just thought was kind of amazing and bloody and brilliant. So so, a few different ones, but a lot of musicals now. I really I struggle with because I think when you actually make musicals you become so...

...hypocritical that I would just sit there just cringing and was a pay in a less it's unless it's dead cool, which not all music comes are. So being critical, you know, seeing the film version of it really is talking about Jamie. What's up part of the film that is that really sticks out at you? That's really representative of the Bernie for this musical? For Yourself, I guess I'm asking what's your favorite part of the film? Is the new song. This was me and then, without a doubt, because it's so powerful. It's also where Dan and I have our cameos and our parents are there. Well, he's Moms and my dad behind us with just as drag nuns in yeah, that was we've found our we found our placed. It was the first shot of the first day of the shoot and it was a little cobble street which we were pretending was somewhere in London but actually was literally just opposite the theater where we opened. So it was kind of an amazing day of everything coming full circle. And we had John mccree who's the original Jamie in the west end playing young richdy grunt, and the flashback Max, who was now the movie Jamie, Max Hardwood, having his first day. And there we all were, with me and Dan in these ridiculous heels all done up, tottering along and and then the song is I just think it's it's probably my favorite one of all the songs we've written and I think the moment is really powerful. It's our kind of it's our it's how we honor that, you know, the fall, and it's our kind of letter back to those times and those days and AIDS and s and London and drag and Thatcher and the police and everything and trying to kind of make sense of that from modern audience. I have to tell you I was not familiar with the musical before seeing the movie. That sequence in particular literally moved me to tears. It was so important and it was still beautifully done. The mixing of generations that have come before us again with that glimpse of hope for the future that we talked about. It was such a beautiful mashup of that. It was it was so inspiring and just beautiful. There's no other word than...

...that. Then beautiful. What was it like meeting the real Jamie and his mom? Well, we we saw the documentary and then I just watched it once because I didn't want it to influence me too much, although I subliminally absorbed way more than I realize. So actually there's so much bit in the show, but we decided not to meet Jamie until we've written it so that we didn't have any competing version of Jamie. Knew who's my fictional version and Jamie camper, who's the real boy. And so he met Jamie and we played in the songs and Jamie knew this musicals in the works, but he didn't know, even when we just had our two weeks at Sheffield, that it was a big proper with a band on a proper theater, with a proper budget, with, you know, a cast of thirty and sets and costumes and magic and all the rest of it. He had no idea it was going to be all of that. So when he came into Dan Studio, firstly Dan Studio is beautiful. So he walked through the door and you see all these amazing machines and grand pianos and thing okay, this is this is a proper a songwriters dead. Yeah, and then we played in the songs which we'd had all demoed up and he thought it was going to be like the two of us at a piano kind of crooning out some show tunes in the top floor of the pub, and instead we had this lavish production and played in all the songs and he found it very, very emotional, as you can expect, particularly he's my boy, which is the big mother's son Song. And then we met Margaret on the night before we open the show and it was amazing because she'd come out with these little sayings where, well, what is normal anyway, and Johnny and the Dorts and I was to look at each other because they were literally lines from the show that I'd written, I'd made up, and she those three or four times where she just said things that were almost word for word lines of dialog I given her from my imagination in the show, and we said to it the end of the night. You'll think that we've gone home and rewritten it when you see it tomorrow, but I promise you everything is as it was before we met. And Margaret always says to me you were in my head, you're in my head and somehow, yeah, we were. So we have this very beautiful and must be forr quite strange relationship where it's like I'm her mind reader.

But they're wonderful family, Margaret's mummy as well, and they they yeah, they support the show and they love the show and we love them. What is your current take, or what is your take on current drag culture? You know, it's had this mainstream explosion, very different than the drag culture of Moco, you know, I yea. Is it a good thing? Is it becoming overly commercial? Well, it's. It's the next phase, isn't it's the next stage and in the end, I supposed to success always breeds commerciality. But the visibility it has and the kind of the lesson it has, which is to say to all these kids who love drag race or obsessed with drag who are generation ago would know nothing about it, but it says them, is just don't take anything too seriously and have fun and be kind and if you want to wear a dress, were a dress. If you don't wear a dress, don't wear addressed don't judge anyone for the dress they're wearing and just sort of saying don't get too hung up on the idea of how things are supposed to be if there's no good value in it. I mean, it's good to be kind, it's good to pay your debts, you know, it's good to say hello and goodbye when you meet someone, but when it comes to all these conventions that we can get so stuck in about a boy, is this, a girl is that? If you're not exactly this, then you're wrong and you're dirty. It just says to kids just relax and don't be all judge as you get older. So I think that is brilliant. Of course it becomes commercial and I'm sure there's a lot of drag queens from back in the day who are furious about that, but I think in the most part it's such a force for good and it's so much fun. I mean, I know it's being kind of like a bit of a gay secret for a long time and now the whole world gets to come in on it. I feel like we're giving a gift to all these people and putting so much color and glitter in their lives. And you know, I think there's as many drag queens as possible. The more the better, and you also write children's books. Why? White Children's books? I haven't done one for a long time. I did three picture books...

...quite a long time ago. The first one was a bet. I bet a friend of mine and publishing that I could write a picture book in half an hour and I did and I was like, Oh, these are so easy. And then I did a second one and I was like, Oh, this is much harder because I realized all the ideas I've ever had in my head had gone into the first one, and then the third one was so difficult. So I think everyone has that one book inside them and maybe it comes out quite easily, but when you've done that, trying to do the second on the third is a lot of work. So it was. It was a really fun thing to do and I deaf Dun't like just today when I was going out. I always go for run before lunchtime to to process my thoughts before I start writing in the afternoon, and I can't with a really good idea for a kids pitch book and I thought she maybe I should do another one. And so yeah, it's really if the right idea sort of hits you and at that time this great idea for kids book fans my lap. So I think you know she'd always try like lights before, you know, jump in the deep, and I've never done that before, so why not give it a go? Jamie has exploded on the scene and such a big way. How have you handled that, that major exposure? Like you know, here in the states, you know, you've obviously been in the industry, you've been writing, but this really has to touch so many people our eyes I knew now. Well, thank you. It's yeah, it's lovely because in theater, if you're a writer, that's that's a really big deal. In theater everyone loves the writers and no one cares about the director. And in film everyone loves the director no one cares about the right and it's very cool. It's the same director and the same writer as for Jamie all along and again to do all this with your best friends, which Johnny and Dan Ares, is such a treat and the fat after all of this Jamie, where our lives are utterly Jamie infused. We are better friends now than were when we started. So, but your questions about visibility and it is yeah, I do occasionally get recognized that in the street. I mean like enough of small enough number of times. I literally remember each time it happened, which is kind of interesting. But seeing, yeah, like Jami's face on the side of a bus and and it's not my face,...

...but I know that that's that is my he's my baby. Is Lovely and yeah, it's nice to have created something not only with people who you love, but which actually people in the real world really love. Is Don't don't go to who was a bit like that, but I didn't create doctor, who by got to be part of it. As with this, you know, we invented Jamie and actually, if I look over here, where you can't see that, I can see my kitchen table where I certain and wrote all the lyrics to the songs. So it's it feels like this little thing we kind of came up with and now it's out there and it's it is a joy to know that we started this ball rolling Tom what is your message to your fans? Well, I'll tell you firstly, thank you for my fans. I don't know that there's that many of you, but thank you who there are. The message of Jamie and probably really the message of everything that I do and what I believe more meny thing is what I'll have inscribed to my tombstone, which is kindness is a superpower. It's more important that anything else in the world. And however, you can find ways of expressing that kindness, particularly in this post covid or mid covid world, it's gold dust just reaching out to neighbors and friends and being kind to people in the street and giving people a chance and not being an awful person and not being a SNOB and not haven't been judge or gossipy or mean, just being kind. It really does change the world and it's something that I've learned and at the point in my life now where things are going pretty well for me, and this is when you could just turn into some kind of awful sort of citizen cane nightmare, Harvey Weinstein Person. Really, because we got, and I say we met and Dana Johnny, we got where we were with Jamie because a bunch of ordinary people from the community of Sheffield got behind the show and shouted so loudly about how much they loved it that London couldn't help but sit up and take notice and get us into the west end and then the rest of the world as well. But it all began with a community of people just getting behind something that they loved and we're only here because of them. So it's very humbling and our feet are firmly plants on the ground...

...because of that. So my message would be kindness is a superpower and never think that success is just by one person. It's always a team and you should always be greatful humble. Tom, I can't think of a better way to start my day. It has been such such a thrill for me as being a fan and you're just so charming and thank you for being a voice for our community. Thank you for Supporting Jamie, and we open up the Almidson in Los Angeles in January to get some sign now I will be there. I will be there with bells on Tom and tell everybody where you want them to find you and follow you. Oh, I'm on INSTA and twitter as Tom mcbriter, Tom M Acwrrier, and I'm Bluetick, so you know it's me. Come and say hello. Thank you. Thank you so much. All right, go back to writing your next musical and literally right now. Thanks so much. He's let you talk to you. Thank you, Tom. That has been my chat with Tom mccrae. You can read my indepth article with him in the latest issue of Metro source, available on new stands or at Metro sourcecom. And that's our episode. I'm your host and lead writer for Metro source, Alexander Rodriguez. You can follow me on Instagram at Alexander is on air. Until next time, stay true and do you boot? That has been another metro source mini like share, subscribe on your favorite podcast player and check out the latest issue of Metro Sports magazine on newstands or online at Metro sportscom. Follow us on Facebook, instagram at metal source and on twitter at Metro Court Man. Until next time, he fast.

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