Everybody's Talking About Jamie Writer Tom MacRae

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Joining the ranks of Ryan Murphy and Greg Berlanti in elevating LGBTQ characters and voices,  writer Tom MacRae made his US debut with EVERYBODY’S TALKING ABOUT JAMIE.

MacRae is entirely self-taught in screenwriting, playwrighting, and scripting for television. MacRae was nominated for a BAFTA early in his career for writing the TV movie Off Limits: School's Out. From there, he’s worked consistently, notably as a writer on the cult hit TV series “Doctor Who,” and he then created and wrote “Threesome,” Comedy Central UK’s first original scripted comedy since the channel was renamed in 2009, which got him noticed in the United States.The show itself started as a collaboration between Tom McRae (who also wrote the screenplay) and musician Dan Gillespie Sells, responsible for the songs and collaborating on the film’s score with Oscar winner Anne Dudley (The Full Monty).

On this episode of Metrosource Minis, we chat with Tom MacRae from across the pond about growing up as a gay kid in a small town, how he got into the writing biz, his creative process, getting Jamie to the stage, meeting the real-life Jamie and his mom, bringing the show to the US, his favorite scene from the film, making his own cameo in the movie, and handling his new found US fame, and what's ahead...with host Alexander Rodriguez.

This is metro source minis, theofficial podcast to Metro source magazine and home of short form interviews with your favoritepersonalities from the lgbtq world and beyond. Quick, Fun and informative. It'smetro source on the go, out in proud since one thousand nine hundred andninety. Well, hello, hello, hello. This is metro source minis. I'm your host, Alexander Rodriguez, writer for Metro source and avid podcaster. So we know that I hardly like anything that's popular. Forest Gump,no Sunday brunch. Now I'm going to sleep in. Sweet potato fries.Definitely no real housewives NACK. But something that has hit the globe in sucha loud way that is perfectly charming, sweet and Sassy, is a moviethat I am absolutely in love with. Based on the stage musical, everybody'stalking about Jamie joining the ranks of Ryan Murphy and Great Brulante and elevating lgbtqcharacters and voices. Writer Tom McRae made his US debut with this film,and the show itself started as a collaboration between Tom, who also wrote thescreenplay, and musician Dan Gillespie sells, who wrote the songs. Now Tomis entirely self taught in screenwriting, playwriting and scripting for television. He wasnominated for a bath to early in his career for writing the TV movie offlimits schools out, and from there he's worked consistently, notably as a writeron the cult hit TV series Dr who, and then he created and wrote threesome comedy central, UK's first original scripted comedy since the channel was renamed, which got him noticed in the US. They thank you Jesus. Please welcomeTom mccrae. Hey, thank you so much for having me. Howare you? I'm really good. I feel very fired up by that fantasticenthusiastic introduction. Now I have to say this is a metro source first thatwe're chatting with somebody from across the pond. Do I have to be more doI need to be more formal? Do I need a drink? Tea? Like what's happening? You couldn't curtsy...

...at the end. I think that'sappropriate, but we'll keep it light till that. So I have to knowart was a part of your household growing up. When you learn the mostfrom your parents about the creative process? Well, my mom was an artteacher at a high school and she's a really long hours. She was shewas very she was a kind of a career woman. She was the firstwoman to be the head of a department at the school. She'd worked outand so she was she was very driven, but she always made chil she hadlots of time for me and my dad as well, and we dolots of creative projects that didn't really cost much because they didn't have much moneywhen I was growing up. So we'd make a lot of stuff and I'min my dad make me a puppet theater out of all these cut out bitsof card, my Moma County Games to play. We just kind of ordinarythings around the house. So it's lots of kind of encouraging me to usemy imagination and I'd get, you know, toys and stuff at Christmas. Itwasn't like I was Dickensiean Orten, but a lot of the most funwas from just taking ordinary stuff and making it extraordinary through imagination. If youplay and when we created the stage show for Jamie, you know, wehad a very limited budget. So being able to know how to make somethinggood before you have all the money, and even when you do have allthe money, there's never enough. You know, if you can fall backon your imagination, you can always make something special, and so I thinkI definitely learned that from them. Now, what kind of kid were you growingup? Were you kind of an introvert or were you the one targetand class all the time? I didn't. I wasn't really either. I justwas kind of lost. I was definitely in the wrong place. Igrew up in a little village, which is it's like a small town,but but smaller, smaller than that. You're thinking, it's it and andand I love it now, but it was not like a nurturing place fora quick kid who wanted to make movies and theater and, you know,write songs and all the stuff that I got to do. So I wasyeah, I was the odd one out and it I'd never worked out howto fit in, and actually now I...

...fit in there very well. Ithink I've worked out how to be able to have different sides to my life. But as a kid I just wanted to escape. That was all Iwas interested and I didn't care about school or anything. I was in particularacademic and I just was looking to run away, which, to be fair, I've never stopped doing. I'm always running somewhat it. I love thatand I see that that that journey has done well for you. Do youmind sharing your coming out story with us? Yeah, it was. It wasn'tgreat. I was seventeen and it sort of came out like me wantingit too. So I had the kind of fall out of having never evenkissed a boy. Like where I grew up, I didn't think there wereany gay kids. In hindsight, and with Facebook, I've discovered that actuallythere were a few that I didn't know about, but even that not many. So it was all it was so hypothetical and suddenly I was having tokind of explain who I was and I didn't know I hadn't. I hadn'thad kissed to boil or met another gay kid my age or done anything andsomething. I had to be kind of explaining it to people and as Idon't know, I don't know it it was. It was really kind ofhorrible, but it wasn't horrible for very long. Actually, my mom anddad it was a bit of a readjustment, but they were pretty good and thenthey were absolutely great. So now it I can sort of talk aboutit without any residual pain, but it was not fun at the time.Now, what first inspired you to put that pen to paper for the firsttime, so to speak? I always wanted to make movies and tell storiesand and do what I'm doing now, and so you kind of the start. I thought, well, that's a director, but I didn't know howto raise all the money and, you know, put together a crew andhe I didn't know how to do that then. So I thought, well, I just write something. That kind of became was like the cheapest wayto start to create stories. And then I discovered that actually really enjoyed doingit and and then quite a while later I thought I'll actually I think I'mquite good at this, and for a long time I didn't think I wasvery good. I just enjoyed it and I thought it was a way intothe industry. And then, and then,...

...particularly when I started doing theater,which was something I'd never really thought I was going to do, whichis a much more pure form of writing, and I'd sit down and I'm inthe middle of writing the musical, a stage music clip moe, literallyI just put it down to come and talk to you and I've and itis quite hard and it's tricky to figure out, but I sit there typeand away and I really do enjoy it. So what was kind of some effortwas in necessities, end up becoming a great pleasure. Can you giveus any clue as to what the new music was about, or is thatunder wraps? It's about some people who sing some songs. It's now Ican't anything. I wish I could. I'm as soon as I can,I'll be I'll be screaming from rooftops, but it's some secret among I'm veryexcited. I'm you have no formal training as a writer. What do youthink? What do you think it was about your writing that affected the sceneand you sold your scripts and you've become part of the industry? Yeah,I think not knowing what you're doing is quite useful, and maybe look fora doctor. Well, yes, that's too maybe I'm talking about creative industryspecifically, where you know if you can invent it with enough kind of imagination, you can make it become true. But you, I think, whenyou really do think you know what you're doing is probably when you're going tostart producing kind of stale crap. So it's good to keep chest testing yourselffrom kind of throwing yourself in at the deep end. And that's all I'veever done. And if I'd done a writing course, I'd left with thatkind of piece of paper at your look, I'm a writer. Well, thatwould be a very false confidence, because you're not a writer till you'rewriting and you're not a good writer till you're writing good stuff. So tonever go in thinking that I deserve to be there, but I had toearn my place with every job just kind of kept me keen and hungry.But actually, a couple of years ago now, me and Dan and Johnnywho created Jamie, we were made doctors of the arts by Sheffield how university, which is where did Jamie stage show opened, the where it's set soso many we had this very formal day where we all got this kind ofeducation we've never had and this fantastic qualification. So now I am actually qualified,like I'm a literally a doctor.

It's come quite late in my careernow. When you were young, you love like transformers and Star Wars.When the doctor who GIG came around, I mean that's huge to be partof that kind of part of science fiction history, television history. How didyou get the doctor WHO GIG? Well, I knew Russell t Davis, whobrought the show back, because Russell had done a book signing in Londonwhen he was doing well, just done queer as folk, which was theshow that made me really want to become a TV writer. Before then Ijust wanted to do films, which to me a long time to get amovie made. But watching crew as folk I thought well, TV's just brilliantin its own way, and so I who did a book signing. Ijust kind of turned up and I was about nineteen and I said I wantto be a writer. Will you help and somehow I talked him into itand and he mentored me and you know, and still to this day, Isend him to and say what you think? And when he brought Drwho back, he asked me to go on to it. So I'd rememberat that point I wasn't he hadn't pick me up out of the streets.I've been writing shows for the BBC. I was you know, I hada people knew me a bit, but it was a huge step up.And not only is it, as you say, cal SCI FI royalty.If you live in the UK it is ingrained in popular culture, as heshowed. Nearly sixty years old. Everyone has grown up with it. It'sjust a part of the culture here and to be part of that, todo something that you know has such a kind of long lasting impact, wasreally special and it's the first time I got to do something like that.You know, Queer as talk is as getting a reboot. Here in thestates we can take on reboots if they're good. I mean doctor who wasn'ta reboot. It was. It literally picked up what it left right.I think, yeah, there's no reason why they can't be good. It'sit. Sometimes it's better to start again than to try to continue. Butas long as there's a good reason for doing that, and by me triedto. It happens with crew as folks. It was only ever, I think, eight episode two or maybe ten, and it ran for a long timein the state. So one off in a whole different direction. Sowe see what they do. Is that...

...and a great time to do it. You have stated in other interviews that you don't normally put yourself in yourwriting, except for that that one part of everybody's talking about Jamie. Whyis that? Well, the first thing I ever wrote, because I didn'tknow what I was doing, I wrote about the awful summer jobs I havewhen I was a student, and the main character with me and all thecharacters in it were people that I liked and disliked, who I've met,and all the stories true stories that I kind of you know, have tokind of push them into shape, but they were certain. It was kindof autobiographical, and I did that because I didn't know how to write.So I thought, well, I've got to learn everything from scratch, soat least let's have a few safety nets, and one of them was to baseall the characters on real people and have the main guy be me,because I knew how to find their voices and all the stories were sort oftrue. But once I've done that and I kind of figured out at leasthow to structure an episode of TV, I thought, well, I don'tknow what it is. I think I just I don't like going down akind of naval gazing world of writers writing about writing and TV shows about TVshows. Not I mean they can be brilliant. There's you know, there'salways exceptions to the rule. But I just want to write about other peopleand I don't put myself in stuff very often. Maybe one day I willand that will be a big kind of project. Try to find what itis about me that I find interesting. But normal I just find other peoplemuch more interesting. What's the biggest what are the biggest differences between writing forEnglish projects and then writing for you as projects? Well, I've been I'vebeen looking to work in both countries and and I do have a foot inin La and in London, so I kind of speak American English. SoI know. I remember I just have a house in West Hollywood and gettingthe you but to drop me off once they would demolishing the house next doorto make him up mansion and I said, can you just drop me by theskip, and he drove past the skip. And so the next timeI said, could you drop me by the skip? And they drove pastand I thought, I don't think they call them skips, so I googledit and it's a dumpster. So you should things like that. Very simple. What's the American word for? And I kind of now if I'm writingsomething. So I'm writing a show.

The moment set in the states andI'll type something I just get a little niggled thinking I don't think that's theright word. I don't know why I just it. I don't think that'sthe right word, and then I'll check with American friends. How would yousay if it's like an idiom or just just literally word like skip and dumpster? So I kind of yeah, I because I'll be able to live inboth worlds, in both cultures. I think I've got a good sense ofit and how the audience is them pretty much the same, but there's afew differences and things brip. Brits like shows about losers and Americans like showsabout winners, which is kind of that's interesting, but that's very interesting.Now the journey to the musical version of everybody's talking about Jamie from jam willthe show. That's a show. Until it south. There was a fewdelays where they're not. Well, we were pretty fast. It's just thethe way where it was. We did to workshops and then we opened andbecause for a the to like you know, when we opened at Sheffield, knownyou the show would go on to be the success it has. Noreally would have dreamed it so they were, you know, that they had alimited pot of funds to give us to do our workshops, which forthem was a lot of money. And having done the workshop that was verysuccessful, we wanted to get straight over the next one and then we kindof had to wait a year for the money to be sorted out and thenwe do. We'll already waited a year to get first one. So wewere always I think we could have done the whole thing in a few months, but we ended up taking a back three years because of bit of theaterpolitics. But actually three years is really fast for a musical. We coulddone it quicker. The next one we will do quicker, but we werewe were pretty on it, so it didn't feel to slow down actually.But yeah, we probably could have turned it around faster, but then itopened at a time when people would just ready for it, so maybe itwas the best thing. Now, just like when you first started writing,you had no previous experience writing a musical. Was your creative process different for writingthe musical, or did you just sit and do it, or didyou study other musicals? What was your kind of process? Well, soI wrote the songs with Dan, I...

...did the lyrics and down did themusic and normally with his band, of feeling down with you both, andnormally I would do neither. So there's a kind of point of US figuringout how that works. But we went to watch a lot of shows toresearch what other shows we're doing and actually at one of those we bumped intosomeone who ended up introducing us to Jonathan Buttell, who'd seen the Jamie documententry, which inspired the stage show. So that, how is how that'show that kind of all came together. But yeah, we we just paidattention and I read Stephen Somheme wrote two really good books about his kind ofexperiencing musicals called finishing a hat and look, I made a hat and I've readboth of thoats. And Dan said to me, but you've never hadany training in anything you do, don't break your lucky streak, and hewas kind of worried, because I was actually trying to learn stuff, thatit would mess it all up. But we didn't learn too much. Ithink that's that's why it works, is we just did it and it justcame together and now, looking back, I could probably kind of breakdown whyit worked. At the time we were just like, if we're having funand we like it, then it's probably okay. and Luckily enough other peoplehave the same kind of sensibilities that we do. That we found this hugeaudience which we didn't really know was out there. Now, what did youlearn most about yourself from writing, Jamie? Uh, I don't know. That'sa good question because I don't really put myself in things. So thatyou just kind of alluded to, which is that the speech at the end, which is I think it's pretty much exactly the same in movies it isin the stage show, where pretty takes down dean the bully. Everything shesays in that speech is me at that age, what I wish I couldhave said to the deans in my life, if I think two of them wereactually called Dean, which is why I use the name and and sothat was a little bit of me in there, but I guess I suppose. Well, something I really did them was shooting the film, was gettingto hang around with all these amazing sort of sixteen, seventeen, eighteen yearolds who played our year eleven and some were kind of early twenties and somewere one was actually late twenties, but in the most part they were kindof school age kids themselves or they just...

...left school, and talking to themand seeing how the mostly straight but how they kind of responded to the contentof Jamie and the queer issue and the drag and the gender bending and allthat and just how completely relaxed and open minded they were about it all.And these weren't posh kids, these weren't stage school kids, they were kidsfrom the area. We found by doing an open casting call and realizing,since I was at school, just how much it's all moved on. Andthen I got to go back to my old school to do like a speechday and and I hated being there the first time around and going back thesecond time around with all different staff and all different kids, seeing that howmuch they really wanted to have an inclusive community at the school. They hada group for for Trans Kids at the school and active LGBT club and theteachers will really proactively kind of pushing that kind of conversation to be happening.And I thought, well, the world has all changed. I mean it'snot perfect and this is only one small part of the world, but inthe UK it really has moved on a lot and I'm really happy that Jamiegets to be kind of part of that. That's exactly right. I have alot of hope for the future because the youth, I have to alsothey don't have the same restrictions on themselves, on their identities. You know,the whole world's really their oyster. In divid he is a natural partof their youth and that's very exciting. Yeah, yeah, I think that'strue. How did you meet down? We were on a rally. We'rebeing political, and I was with a friend of mine at's called Russell,toby and Russell, and you Dan a bit, and so we ended upwith him and his mom, Cath. that a dance, by ways,and me and Dan just really hit it off and so we started hanging outand I was a really big fan of Dan's band. Went was, Istill am, and he had been watching my Sitcom which was on TV atthe time, threesome. Yeah, and so we end up kind of hangingout. We'd go and get drunk and I was quite exciting because I've neverhad a friend whom was a pop star before, and we'd go, weshould ride a musical, we should ride a musical. Yeah, we're ridingmusical and then one day Dan rang me whilst we're both sober and said let'sactually do it. So so we've been...

...friends for a little bit before ithappened. So it's but our friendship has always been involved in some way witheither talking about our writing a musical. What are some of the musicals thathave shaped your life? Probably the most influential musical and probably kind of filmand maybe anything really, is beauty and the beast, the Disney cartoon fromthe S. Yeah, pause when I watched it was just the kind ofperiod in my life where I was becoming like an angry, upset teen andI didn't feel that the kind of angry music, like kind of golf orEmo or any of that stuff, really was helping because I just was sosort of furious and unhappy all the time and to listen to music that wasjust that made me feel worse. And then I watched beauty in the beastand there was Belle walking out singing, just a little town, just aquiet village, every day like the one before, just like where I grewup and as I've got she's me and and that soundtrack kind of became themusic that I listened to you over and over and over again, because itmade me think there's a better world around the corner and actually don't just,you know, surrender to all the misery and sit and slasher wrists. Justkeep on going. You will find your shining castle somewhere. So that wasbecame really important to me and still is. It's something that's so special and it'sso good. But aside from that, what it means to be personally sothe influence that's had on me I cannot understate. But in terms ofjust musicals, for the sake of being great, probably I love Greece.I love the accessibility of that and how much fun it is. I lovethat we ship horrors. I love the madness of rocky horror, because itshouldn't work but it's so does. I love the classics like Carousel and soundof music, and I saw sweeney todd in the west end in London yearsago and it's kind of the first show I'd seen as an adult that I'dnever that I didn't know anything about at all and I just thought was kindof amazing and bloody and brilliant. So so, a few different ones,but a lot of musicals now. I really I struggle with because I thinkwhen you actually make musicals you become so...

...hypocritical that I would just sit therejust cringing and was a pay in a less it's unless it's dead cool,which not all music comes are. So being critical, you know, seeingthe film version of it really is talking about Jamie. What's up part ofthe film that is that really sticks out at you? That's really representative ofthe Bernie for this musical? For Yourself, I guess I'm asking what's your favoritepart of the film? Is the new song. This was me andthen, without a doubt, because it's so powerful. It's also where Danand I have our cameos and our parents are there. Well, he's Momsand my dad behind us with just as drag nuns in yeah, that waswe've found our we found our placed. It was the first shot of thefirst day of the shoot and it was a little cobble street which we werepretending was somewhere in London but actually was literally just opposite the theater where weopened. So it was kind of an amazing day of everything coming full circle. And we had John mccree who's the original Jamie in the west end playingyoung richdy grunt, and the flashback Max, who was now the movie Jamie,Max Hardwood, having his first day. And there we all were, withme and Dan in these ridiculous heels all done up, tottering along andand then the song is I just think it's it's probably my favorite one ofall the songs we've written and I think the moment is really powerful. It'sour kind of it's our it's how we honor that, you know, thefall, and it's our kind of letter back to those times and those daysand AIDS and s and London and drag and Thatcher and the police and everythingand trying to kind of make sense of that from modern audience. I haveto tell you I was not familiar with the musical before seeing the movie.That sequence in particular literally moved me to tears. It was so important andit was still beautifully done. The mixing of generations that have come before usagain with that glimpse of hope for the future that we talked about. Itwas such a beautiful mashup of that. It was it was so inspiring andjust beautiful. There's no other word than...

...that. Then beautiful. What wasit like meeting the real Jamie and his mom? Well, we we sawthe documentary and then I just watched it once because I didn't want it toinfluence me too much, although I subliminally absorbed way more than I realize.So actually there's so much bit in the show, but we decided not tomeet Jamie until we've written it so that we didn't have any competing version ofJamie. Knew who's my fictional version and Jamie camper, who's the real boy. And so he met Jamie and we played in the songs and Jamie knewthis musicals in the works, but he didn't know, even when we justhad our two weeks at Sheffield, that it was a big proper with aband on a proper theater, with a proper budget, with, you know, a cast of thirty and sets and costumes and magic and all the restof it. He had no idea it was going to be all of that. So when he came into Dan Studio, firstly Dan Studio is beautiful. Sohe walked through the door and you see all these amazing machines and grandpianos and thing okay, this is this is a proper a songwriters dead.Yeah, and then we played in the songs which we'd had all demoed upand he thought it was going to be like the two of us at apiano kind of crooning out some show tunes in the top floor of the pub, and instead we had this lavish production and played in all the songs andhe found it very, very emotional, as you can expect, particularly he'smy boy, which is the big mother's son Song. And then we metMargaret on the night before we open the show and it was amazing because she'dcome out with these little sayings where, well, what is normal anyway,and Johnny and the Dorts and I was to look at each other because theywere literally lines from the show that I'd written, I'd made up, andshe those three or four times where she just said things that were almost wordfor word lines of dialog I given her from my imagination in the show,and we said to it the end of the night. You'll think that we'vegone home and rewritten it when you see it tomorrow, but I promise youeverything is as it was before we met. And Margaret always says to me youwere in my head, you're in my head and somehow, yeah,we were. So we have this very beautiful and must be forr quite strangerelationship where it's like I'm her mind reader.

But they're wonderful family, Margaret's mummyas well, and they they yeah, they support the show and they lovethe show and we love them. What is your current take, orwhat is your take on current drag culture? You know, it's had this mainstreamexplosion, very different than the drag culture of Moco, you know,I yea. Is it a good thing? Is it becoming overly commercial? Well, it's. It's the next phase, isn't it's the next stage and inthe end, I supposed to success always breeds commerciality. But the visibilityit has and the kind of the lesson it has, which is to sayto all these kids who love drag race or obsessed with drag who are generationago would know nothing about it, but it says them, is just don'ttake anything too seriously and have fun and be kind and if you want towear a dress, were a dress. If you don't wear a dress,don't wear addressed don't judge anyone for the dress they're wearing and just sort ofsaying don't get too hung up on the idea of how things are supposed tobe if there's no good value in it. I mean, it's good to bekind, it's good to pay your debts, you know, it's goodto say hello and goodbye when you meet someone, but when it comes toall these conventions that we can get so stuck in about a boy, isthis, a girl is that? If you're not exactly this, then you'rewrong and you're dirty. It just says to kids just relax and don't beall judge as you get older. So I think that is brilliant. Ofcourse it becomes commercial and I'm sure there's a lot of drag queens from backin the day who are furious about that, but I think in the most partit's such a force for good and it's so much fun. I mean, I know it's being kind of like a bit of a gay secret fora long time and now the whole world gets to come in on it.I feel like we're giving a gift to all these people and putting so muchcolor and glitter in their lives. And you know, I think there's asmany drag queens as possible. The more the better, and you also writechildren's books. Why? White Children's books? I haven't done one for a longtime. I did three picture books...

...quite a long time ago. Thefirst one was a bet. I bet a friend of mine and publishing thatI could write a picture book in half an hour and I did and Iwas like, Oh, these are so easy. And then I did asecond one and I was like, Oh, this is much harder because I realizedall the ideas I've ever had in my head had gone into the firstone, and then the third one was so difficult. So I think everyonehas that one book inside them and maybe it comes out quite easily, butwhen you've done that, trying to do the second on the third is alot of work. So it was. It was a really fun thing todo and I deaf Dun't like just today when I was going out. Ialways go for run before lunchtime to to process my thoughts before I start writingin the afternoon, and I can't with a really good idea for a kidspitch book and I thought she maybe I should do another one. And soyeah, it's really if the right idea sort of hits you and at thattime this great idea for kids book fans my lap. So I think youknow she'd always try like lights before, you know, jump in the deep, and I've never done that before, so why not give it a go? Jamie has exploded on the scene and such a big way. How haveyou handled that, that major exposure? Like you know, here in thestates, you know, you've obviously been in the industry, you've been writing, but this really has to touch so many people our eyes I knew now. Well, thank you. It's yeah, it's lovely because in theater, ifyou're a writer, that's that's a really big deal. In theater everyoneloves the writers and no one cares about the director. And in film everyoneloves the director no one cares about the right and it's very cool. It'sthe same director and the same writer as for Jamie all along and again todo all this with your best friends, which Johnny and Dan Ares, issuch a treat and the fat after all of this Jamie, where our livesare utterly Jamie infused. We are better friends now than were when we started. So, but your questions about visibility and it is yeah, I dooccasionally get recognized that in the street. I mean like enough of small enoughnumber of times. I literally remember each time it happened, which is kindof interesting. But seeing, yeah, like Jami's face on the side ofa bus and and it's not my face,...

...but I know that that's that ismy he's my baby. Is Lovely and yeah, it's nice to havecreated something not only with people who you love, but which actually people inthe real world really love. Is Don't don't go to who was a bitlike that, but I didn't create doctor, who by got to be part ofit. As with this, you know, we invented Jamie and actually, if I look over here, where you can't see that, I cansee my kitchen table where I certain and wrote all the lyrics to the songs. So it's it feels like this little thing we kind of came up withand now it's out there and it's it is a joy to know that westarted this ball rolling Tom what is your message to your fans? Well,I'll tell you firstly, thank you for my fans. I don't know thatthere's that many of you, but thank you who there are. The messageof Jamie and probably really the message of everything that I do and what Ibelieve more meny thing is what I'll have inscribed to my tombstone, which iskindness is a superpower. It's more important that anything else in the world.And however, you can find ways of expressing that kindness, particularly in thispost covid or mid covid world, it's gold dust just reaching out to neighborsand friends and being kind to people in the street and giving people a chanceand not being an awful person and not being a SNOB and not haven't beenjudge or gossipy or mean, just being kind. It really does change theworld and it's something that I've learned and at the point in my life nowwhere things are going pretty well for me, and this is when you could justturn into some kind of awful sort of citizen cane nightmare, Harvey WeinsteinPerson. Really, because we got, and I say we met and DanaJohnny, we got where we were with Jamie because a bunch of ordinary peoplefrom the community of Sheffield got behind the show and shouted so loudly about howmuch they loved it that London couldn't help but sit up and take notice andget us into the west end and then the rest of the world as well. But it all began with a community of people just getting behind something thatthey loved and we're only here because of them. So it's very humbling andour feet are firmly plants on the ground...

...because of that. So my messagewould be kindness is a superpower and never think that success is just by oneperson. It's always a team and you should always be greatful humble. Tom, I can't think of a better way to start my day. It hasbeen such such a thrill for me as being a fan and you're just socharming and thank you for being a voice for our community. Thank you forSupporting Jamie, and we open up the Almidson in Los Angeles in January toget some sign now I will be there. I will be there with bells onTom and tell everybody where you want them to find you and follow you. Oh, I'm on INSTA and twitter as Tom mcbriter, Tom M Acwrrier, and I'm Bluetick, so you know it's me. Come and say hello. Thank you. Thank you so much. All right, go back to writingyour next musical and literally right now. Thanks so much. He's let youtalk to you. Thank you, Tom. That has been my chatwith Tom mccrae. You can read my indepth article with him in the latestissue of Metro source, available on new stands or at Metro sourcecom. Andthat's our episode. I'm your host and lead writer for Metro source, AlexanderRodriguez. You can follow me on Instagram at Alexander is on air. Untilnext time, stay true and do you boot? That has been another metrosource mini like share, subscribe on your favorite podcast player and check out thelatest issue of Metro Sports magazine on newstands or online at Metro sportscom. Followus on Facebook, instagram at metal source and on twitter at Metro Court Man. Until next time, he fast.

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